Stakos Illegal in Millennium Series!

[Robin Hood]

Do STAKO tanks leak?
Yes and no. This requires some explanation.
Some STAKO bottles leak through the wrapping when filled from empty. This is gas from before the liner settles that later escapes through the wrapping and is not a hazard. Neither is the tank (bottle fill inside liner) itself really leaking after the first moments of the fill.

I've had a STAKO for over half a year now. Mine doesn't leak ever. I'm guessing that the tanks that do are newer and need a run-in period to settle the liner. However it can be argued that this running in should be handled by the manufacturer.

What's happened with the MS ban?
H-pac made a bad call on this one. Simple as that. They followed the Luxfer internal company standard when they should have followed the official govenment approval Tüv. Yes if a Luxfer tank (with aluminium liner) leaks through the wrapping it shows that the liner is ruptured and that IS dangerous. But these were not Luxfer tanks.

If you look at the Millennium Series site it has nothing about this incident listed. Why not? If the ban is indeed in place that info is the most important info they've had in years. More important than getting the results list up or listing minor game rule changes.
There's an explanation for this apart from MS being "too busy" as some have put it, to post the ban on their site. In Sweden we have a local series that followed suit and also banned Stako tanks due the the MS ban. That series has quickly lifted the ban after talking to Stako and Millennium series officials. Something is clearly in the works here and I would not be the least surprised if MS retracts the ban within the next few days.
But this last bit is pure speculation on my part and only time will tell what really happens with all this.

This issue seem to have come up before too, which Stako responded to in December 06

This Bulletin gives a brief explanation to the question raised by a number of
Distributors concerned about the procedure of filling the STAKO Paintball 1,1L
Bottle.

The internal plastic liner and the carbon fibre wrapping adhere to each other, but
when the bottle is empty and there is no pressure inside the tiny gap between the
liner and the wrapping is formed. When such bottle is filled up, this gap needs to
close as the plastic liner starts to adhere to carbon wrapping again. The small
portion of air from this gap needs to evacuate through the wrapping, or usually
close to the neck. Afterwards, when the tank is filled again, you will not observe
any kind of leakage or pressure drop.

Kind regards,
Arek Kubasik
Commercial Director
December 11th 2006

Apparently the Swiss Paintball Pro Tour lifted their ban on the tank yesterday (coyut on the nation)

But

Someone did e-mail the vid Stawb made to Stako and although some air might leak, Stakos response indicates there could be more too it and they want to get in touch with you (if you didn't already know).

---clip---
This would be unusual. Do you have contact to this tank's owner?
Arek


-----Original Message-----
From: Jere Malila [mailto: xxxxx@xxxxx.fi]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:43 PM
To: a.kubasik@stako.pl
Subject: Re: Safety of Stako's paintball tank!

Arek Kubasik wrote:
> > Dear Jere,
> >
> > Please see attached our statement that we released yesterday. We are
> > investigating the case further and will be putting out new press
> > release shortly.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Arek Kubasik
> > Commercial Director
> >
> > T: +48 59 8424895
> > F: +48 59 8481999
> > E: a.kubasik@stako.pl
> > I: www.stako.pl
> >
Hi,

Just found link of leaking bottle. Doesn't look safe for me whatever you
say. Did you mean this kind of leak at press statement?

http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...rrent=Video000
1.flv


-J-

 

[Lovetone]

the plot thickens

 

[Lump]

uummmmm indeed

 

[KitsuneAndy]

the plot thickens

Or rather, HPAC's stance is justified by Stako's comments that a tank leaking in that way would be 'unusual' and requires further investigation?

 

[Fisz]

Well, here's what I've been told by mr Stanislaw Kubicz, the head of design at Stako. The below is my recount of what has been said and I do not in any way associate myself with those statements, neither do I disassociate myself with them. My personal views on the matter are just that, personal, and will not be stated in here unless I drink too much beer and forget to keep my mouth shut.

The bubbles are a normal effect of how the bottle works. The termoplastic liner expands as it is filled with air and pushes on the carbon fiber wrap which in many bottles will cause pockets of air surfacing on the carbon fiber but under the layer of protective coating. This is nothing to worry about according to the good people at Stako.

The leak that Strawb is experiencing is not something normal though and I am in contact with him to help him get this issue resolved with Stako so that he can have a fully working bottle and that Stako get to the reason of this.

I have sent them pictures of my private tank which feature the bubbles in question and long cracks along the diameter of the bottle, in the area where the information sticker is placed. The tank has been rapidly filled to 4500psi at the last Centurio event by myself and only after that have I noticed them. I'm awaiting their reply tomorrow.

I was also told that Stako will change the information on the tanks to educate the users as to how the tank works and I was also informed that Stako representatives will attend the Campaign Cup officially and be available to players and visitors at the event.

 

[Robin Hood]

I was also informed that Stako representatives will attend the Campaign Cup officially and be available to players and visitors at the event.

So they've cleared things up with HPAC and the MS then?

Got pics of your bottle per chance mate so people can see?

 

[pid]

cheers for the update mate.
sounds like fast filling puts it under pressure, like any other bottle really.
And the lining thing makes sense.
cheers due for going out of your way.

 

[Lovetone]

quality work, looks like the issues will be sorted asap for people

 

[Strawb]

As Fisz has mentioned he's spoken to stako about my tank as it leaks more than just the air between the liner and fibre wrapping. Tank will empty a 1000psi fill in 10 mins!

Will report back with what happens but i just wanted to add i have nothing against stako (i bought a secont stako when the first one started leaking and became unusable), mine could just be a rogue one.

My second one has been used for several months with no issue whatsoever so i don't believe it's related to user error.

 

[Fisz]

So they've cleared things up with HPAC and the MS then?

Got pics of your bottle per chance mate so people can see?

From what I know they are in the process of clearing things up with them, my guess is they feel it will be resolved in a good way for them, hence the declaration.

Yes, I do have pictures but I think right now it's best not to publish them so that Stako examines them and gives me their expert opinion. There's already too much hysteria and unfounded speculations on the internet, I prefer not to add fuel into someone's fire.

Once I hear what they have to say I will post it.