All hits are obvious hits. Good rule or no?

[Wadidiz]

That depends on the situation - just like it were before

The only way a neutral call could work these days would be to freeze the field and that would--of course--require all the refs to be totally coordinated. Not impossible but is it desirable?

Players getting eliminated, because some clumsy ref was positioned poorly to see him get hit, and thus has to perform a check by moving the player, is an absolute NO GO..... officials should NOT impact on the game negatively.

Agreed. Therefore we need to double our efforts to get the refs positioned right in the first place. If a player gets hit running to the snake and refs don't see it break on the player then it is most likely too late by the time the ref runs to check HER. If a player get clipped above the goggles, for example, then a well-positioned ref on the inside of the field facing the snake should be able to see it whenever the player pops up. If there are enough refs, there should always be a ref in-field facing the snake AND someone watching the outside.

 

[Wadidiz]

Steve´s obsessed - after seeing how well all us girls played......

True. After this past weekend my standard vision of a snake player is Anja of the Charms blowing some unsuspecting player's face off.

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

True. After this past weekend my standard vision of a snake player is Anja of the Charms blowing some unsuspecting player's face off.

Anja wasn´t playing the snake - Sofia was - all day long, except for one time when Kristine "accidently" bumped into the snake for some unknown reason (according to herself!)!

But anyway......

Why do you think a neutral call will only work if the whole field is "freezed"? You have 14 players on the field (if 7-man - and oh yeah, the beginning of the game - but nevermind!) - off course it is not needed for all of them to freeze while one, for istanse, snake player is checked thoroughly for hits?! In my book it´s really really rare you would have to make the player in question stand up from the snake, in order to check him (her!) - you can just basically "roll" the player over.... At least that´s how I see it!

You will - hopefully - always have a backplayer or someone else to "cover" the snakeplayer - so doesn´t really matter if the snake-player is called neutral at some point, whereas the rest of the players continues?! I really don´t see the problem!

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I agree with my sister here - and anyway - you don't need to make the player neutral for more than 10 seconds - and it is very rare that a crucial move happens in that time.... especially if the refs are aware of what they are doing.

The whole point here is - either you check the player thoroughly - or you live with players playing on... there is no way you can expose a player to the opposition, and then when he gets hit go "oops - sorry about that - please walk to the deadbox".

Nick

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

I agree with my sister here -

Whoohooo! That almost oughta be a first!

 

[Chicago]

You know, you guys sometimes have this amazing ability to carry on an argument under a set of very constrained circumstances.


Here is my experience:

In MOST cases, there is no reason for a player to play extremely tight to a bunker AND not switch positions except to hide a hit. There are exceptions, and refs need to be aware of when a guy is just in a very tight position, but if a guy slides into the snake and may have a hit on him, just freaking pull the guy off the bunker for a second to check him. There is plenty of room back there (in most cases) to move the guy AND not have him get hit.

And if that means he can't shoot for a second, well, that's just tough ****. Getting checked is part of the game - if you took heat on the way into the snake, or you see the ref coming at you wanting to check your inside, make your life easier and SHOW THE REF WHAT HE WANTS TO SEE! If you're not wanting to do that, and you're going to force the ref to unnecessarily go in there to FORCE you to show him, the only person at fault for the consequences is you.


In my experience, the players who make it really hard for you to check them are the players who really don't want to be checked because they think they are hit. And even if they are not ACTUALLY hit, I can't have a whole lot of sympathy for negative consequences to the player caused by the player's own behavior. Hell, using Nick's example - if I see that you're playing as if the most important thing to you is keeping one side of your mask against the bunker, you can bet I know what you're doing and I'm going to come and ask you to switch sides so I can see what you're hiding, and when you pretend you can't hear me, I'm going to pull you away from your bunker to check you (usually, I'll stand in front of you so if anyone is going to be shot it'll be me and push a gap between the area I want to look at and the bunker) and not care if you still get shot because I know that you think you're already shot and your unwillingness to follow directions and make the check easy is the problem.

 

[shamu]

Nick, your statement:

"Players getting eliminated, because some clumsy ref was positioned poorly to see him get hit, and thus has to perform a check by moving the player, is an absolute NO GO..... officials should NOT impact on the game negatively."

is just wrong on so many levels. Players move, sometimes unexpectedly. Players sometimes intentionally hide a bodypart so a ref can see it. Until we get 2 refs per player (1 for each side), you will have not have absolute perfect, no-touch reffing. (Wad - much love brother, but why are you agreeing with this statement )

If you don't want me to touch you at all - fine. When I come in to check that headshot you have pressed up against the bunker, I will simply tell you to show me whatever body part I want to see. i'm not touching you so you don't get a neutral call. If you don't show me what I want to see (for as long as I want to see it) then I pull your armband.

there, no touching and no neutral calls and I still get to pull you. Is that what you want?

As for the comment about refs not impacting the game... come on. by the very act of participating they have an impact on the game. The impact is only negative if you don't like the calls. We need better trained and more experienced judges, but your obvious bias against refs is showing again. Seriously.

 

[Wadidiz]

Wad - much love brother, but why are you agreeing with this statement

Because I've seen refs push or pull players into hits or otherwise interfere with players so that it cost them. I guess I'm just trying to avoid going into detailed clarifications of what I mean and don't mean about touching, not touching and what I mean with interference.

I can think of times when I've jumped into a snake with a player and got all under and around him without interfering and without really giving away his position. I have video clips of Boogie doing the same.

The main point here is that neutral calls are now as rare as rocking horse shizit and rightly so. I think they might as well be taking away officially. And I also believe that refs should do their work without interfering.

If that means refs miss a hit once in a while then so be it. We just have to get better at positioning and seeing the hits when they impact. Easier said than done, I know, but anything else just doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[shamu]

OK, I can see where you're coming from. I agree some refs can get overzealous in their attempt to find a hit. You shouldn't have to move the players whole body or interfere with them too much while checking them. I think it's more a matter of training and temperment, just like positioning and decision making are (some people can make good, fast decisions; some people can't make a decision to save their life). I just don't like the "don't touch me" mentality some players have.

 

[PSPLane]

Lane - when you take the other teams 40 on the break, you should expect to get shot at. A lot

Aha! I knew if I told that story enough times, someone would believe it.

Actually, I think I could still do it today. Maybe not the other 40, but definitely the front spots. There's no doubt in my mind I could still wreck havok on the field today. I'm simply choosing to stay out of the younger kids way and give them a chance at the limelight.

No doubt I'd still be a killer.















You know I sign all the refs paychecks, right?