Reball results?

[Robbo]

Originally posted by ollytheosteo
Pete and Magued- I'm not concerned about the possibility of reballs becoming illegal, as this will only force us back to practicing with paintballs. What I am concerned about is the possibility that using anything other than a paintball in a marker, in the UK, could lead to markers being re-classified as firearms and subject to the same draconian controls. This is a situation that applies solely in the UK, and is purely down to our crusty old legal situation. The attitude being expressed seems to be "stuff it, we'll shoot 'em until someone tells us that we can't", my worry is that they might just tell us that we can't shoot markers per se. As far as the "we are checking things with the HO, but if someone imports them our hands are tied" doesn't seem to hold water, as surely the makers/distributors of a product have some degree of control as to whom they sell them? One compromise might be to prevent the sale of the Target version in the UK and limit us to the less-lethal rental version. If it all goes pear-shaped and a problem arises the worst that can happen from a non-UK perspective is that you lose 8% of your market, but it sure will f**k our day up.
As far as needing these balls to practice if we are to compete in Europe goes, I have heard the same argument applied to dodgy marker boards;"if we are to compete with top teams, we need the same advantages ", great, but it will be a lot harder to compete without a marker, which is what could happen if we push our luck. As it stands, if someone from the HO were to take a fast marker and load it with target re-balls for testing, rightly or wrongly they might decide to ban the marker rather than the ammo, as they've always done in the past. As long as we regulate ourselves, things are fine. As soon as people start trying to push the envelope of the law, we face potential problems.

Hey Olly, I can't invisage a so called responsible body describing paintball markers as they are now as 'not illegal' and then because of some possible later consideration which applies to a completely different projectile, then going on to undo that prior decision.
Possible yeah but then so's Brockdorff getting a sense of humour and humility, both highly unlikely.
And as for pushing envelopes mate, we would still be running around in caves if we didn't, it's our nature

As for the pump thingy?
Well, my playing days are over mate, even on a recreational level, I have a back that constantly reminds me that my neuronal network in charge of pain perception is alive and well and constantly kicking

 

[Crusher]

Bribe them????

There must be some HO or Enforcement body here who us paintballs and markers for training, like forces in the States? Send some rental balls let em use them and let them speak of how it saved their training cost etc. etc.

In the meantime, I will use them to get better. I have used V-Balls and they are very effective. I must admit I do turn down the velocity as I am not after distance just technique.

Magued Contact

HereHere Here

I wonder what happens now?

 

[stongle]

Ok from the above we have no definitive answer from the legal system; they caveat themselves fantastically:

"Ultimately it would be for the courts to decide whether a paintball gun using a rubber round in a firearm subject to the Control of Firearms act 1968".

Obviously case law dictates that an impact force in excess of X pushes an "air-weapon" into Firearm Classification, however in this instance, clear labelling, safety precautions etc etc should take care of that. Should a person choose to a chrono a Re-ball at 440 at hit someone with it, is just the same as me using my car and intentionally running some one, vehicular homicide, murder, whatever. The effectiveness of Reball maybe effected if chronoing down is required, that is for either Reball to solve, or the end user to determine whether they are worth using (and I'm pretty sure no-one is going to bring out a product that intentionally wounds it's victims, sadist or not).

I believe that by utilisation of the above caveat, the principal of innocent until proven guilty applies (surely). It is presumptuous to claim them "Illegal", until proven as such or otherwise. I have a friend who had recently spent 9 months on Bail and Curfew conditions (including a view days in the 'ville), presumed guilty by many due to the nature of the charge, only to have the case dropped as 1, no evidence existed for a prosecution to proceed, 2, the complaint being withdrawn. Presumption of guilt is a dangerous thing, and often brings unwanted or unwarranted attention to a case or issue. By raising the issue in such a vociferous and oft intransient manner, you'll likely elevate the scenario on to the authorities radar screen.

The other problem "Paintball" faces as a sport, is the applicable case law (so oft quoted), predates the activity or the innovation. Take FA and Trigger Bounce (TB), as an example. The law predates the use of micro switch activation for trigger systems, so we have no idea if bounce is infact illegal To quote it as being a section 5 offence "drag me of to the scrubs" is ridiculous, ask the Home Office and you get exactly the same caveat - they don't blinkin well know!

As an individual you may think High ROF, Trigger Bounce is bad for the sport, etc but bashing everyone with the statute book, when it's handsomely caveated (my new favourite word), is a little rich. Please feel free to say, "in my view bounce is illegal", but not "tis Illegal, burn, kill and stone the heretic". FA/TB It is a debate that needs to be had, with valid arguments for and against on both sides. If a Tournament series, promoter or ref feels fit to outlaw TB, that is solely their decision based on either safety concerns or their personal interpretation of the law as written. Others may choose to interpret differently. Each to his / her own. And I view Reball and FA / TB to be subject to the same debate or misinterpretation.

Hmmm well sorry for drifting off onto FA, but it's kinda related, and I do find the rhetoric a bit alarmist. And as a deputy round these parts we like to keep public panic to a minimum.

 

[stongle]

Here's a thought:

If I was to drop my marker of the top of Canary Wharf and it landed on your head, surely it would impact with a force great enough to make it a section 1 firearm?

Hmmmm, now that's worrying.....

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by stongle


Hmmm well sorry for drifting off onto FA, but it's kinda related, and I do find the rhetoric a bit alarmist. And as a deputy round these parts we like to keep public panic to a minimum.

Glenn, you know that I am following my heroes George and Tony and trying to instil a culture of fear and mistrust here - stop undemining my hard work.

Back on topic: the Govt has proved with its banning of firearms, if they choose to ban Paintball guns (or what is more likely, put them on ticket, along with all other airguns, in the very near future) then they will simply do so.

Far bigger and more powerful lobbies then Paintball could ever muster were knocked aside during the last two firearms amendment acts...

 

[stongle]

Originally posted by duffistuta
Glenn, you know that I am following my heroes George and Tony and trying to instil a culture of fear and mistrust here - stop undemining my hard work.

oooops, My Bad.

 

[Magued]

Reball possibillities.

Now that we have talked a lot about the problems that can accur with the Reball, I would like to raise some different positive effects the Reball can give us.

One thing that I feel can make a difference is the opportunity for players that don't have the money to play paintball as much as they would like.
I have had many, many young guys and girls that have attended a paintball day with their school or club and just loved it.
But as most 13-18 years old dont have money we are losing a lot of potential players and future stars.
This is especially a problem with the kids living in the "projects" or just don;t have the backing from home to take up paintball as a hobby.
Here in Stockholm we have a guy that wants to do something very exciting. He has support from the local authorities and are renting a very cheap parking lot in the middle of a suburb called Södertälje.

His idea is to have every night open paintball on a Sup'Air field using Reballs.
Kids that wants to play a lot can very cheaply buy a season card
and play every day if they want. The authorities will also subsidize
this for the local kids so they can do something else than just drift around all summer.
I think this is HUGE!
In the longer perspective those kids can form clubs and play against other local kids in their backyard.
If we then can get more cities and suburbs to do the same, paintball could grow at a fantasic rate. All this is possible beacuse of the running costs (traditional paintballs) is cut down.
With this I also think paintball can get much more recognition from authorities and people in general. And with more players shops, paint manufactuers, and sponsors will sell more stuff.
Because frankly, has anybody met a 14 year old trying paintball for the first time that didnt love it?
I certainly haven't.


Magued

 

[Red_Merkin]

what about insurance?
how will the insurance companies feel about Reball?

 

[Magued]

Insurance..

For the site here in Sweden it was the same. Different insurance conditions for different countrys and insurance companys.
We will have a liability insurance and then all custumers sites and players need to check out there conditions personally for there insurance conditions.

Magued

 

[Parksy]

Originally posted by duffistuta
Far bigger and more powerful lobbies then Paintball could ever muster were knocked aside during the last two firearms amendment acts...

I do believe Sunderland had the second largest gun club in Britain (it was big anyway) with thousands of memebers before it was banned.... if the governement wants to ban paintball we could do very little to stop it....

On topic though I think the reball idea is cool. I can go in the back garden and snap shoot until my hearts content with no other cost other than my £3 to fill a dive tank

I think like paintballs, reballs, like anything else really if used by the wrong peope can be dangerous... but that isn't the discussion here is it?

As for reclasification of paintball marker, there are a lot of other things we do playing paintball that ARE ALREADY against the law in this country... never mind discussing those that may be against it...