UK Disgrace

[Dave Elliott]

My god duffy -such restraint

Duff.

"Forgive them lord, they know not what they do" (the bible apparently).

I've seen you defend your playing mistakes with great passion - even when i suspect you knew you were wrong.

Your anger is new to me - i like it.

Notice to all UK players of less than 5 years standing.
Many of the developments in paintball over the last 12 years (probably longer) have been aided, shaped, refined and encouraged by suggestion, subtlety, intelligent comment or downright demands from some people at PGI who until a couple of years ago preferred to remain anonymous.

Duffy is one of them. He's also the wisets ****er in any room you happen to be in. In any paintball discussion time will always prove him right.

Eventually, like me you will learn to accept this.

 

[MissyQ]

Dave,
I have 15 years of UK field experience, and 5 years experience in the US, and I also think that YB et al have it a little wrong. No doubt they are smart people, but they take the UK and try to apply US buying philosophy to it, this is why Europe has always been the 'Vietnam' of US paintball magnates. They have often tried to apply existing systems to the UK market and it simply does not work.
How many companies have tried to do this?
PMI (the first time back in the mid-90's - do you remember the big tanker, loaded up with pmi products in the ads?), Kingman, Brass Eagle all failed. Now PMI have simplified their inventory and realised they need to go after the field market, which is where the UK is at. Dye and NPS have made it through the first year, but are clearly disappointed in the results and I doubt they would have sold less or profitted less if they had just used a distributor.
It is the US corporations' inability to spot (or accept) the more subtle differences in culture that always let them down. While Europe is no doubt capitalist, the consumer base does not turn over nearly as quickly as the US, and so typical US strategy does not get results.
I actually think the UK model would work well in the US at a field level, and would create better fields there, but still with less percentage progression to the upper levels of sporting paintball. US fields (for the most part) are far less organised than UK ones, with much less structure, and hence are less enjoyable to play, forcing people (parents in particular) to seek different and more organised ball, which is available at higher levels of play. I get the feeling (and no insults are intended) that the most organised and structured way of playing in the UK is at a rental field, and that things get messier, and less organised as a player progresses onto walk-on play etc. You have to think about where the parents want thier kids to play. They want them to be safe, and protected, by a professional operation.
They also have to be stimulated to continue to play at that level, rather than be dissuaded. UK fields are great at motivating rental players to keep coming back. That is missing from walk-on play or lower level tournaments. Also, remember that in the US, in an area the size of the UK, there might be 4-5 fields. In the UK there are just over 300. This dilution and regionalisation of players does not help.

So, in short, to force more players to progress, the site operators would have to do a worse job, not a better one, and in turn, the people trying to stimulate 'walk-on' (a term which, by its very nature - is disorganised) play have to ante up and make that form of paintball more attractive and organised than rental play. It's still a buyers market, people will choose to do it if it's done better than the alternative.

I know - I have to be different. But I'm right.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

There is more than just the pay off of walk on fees. Any sensible site owner will run it at a site only paint thing for starters.

But Jay, normal rental groups are also site paint only, and at a much greater mark up, so that is not really a argument.

As soon as you go ask a site owner to convert one of his fields to tournament style paintball, you are effectively asking him to close down an existing income stream for something else - and that something else HAS to seem very attractive, for him to make that leap of faith on his own, without his suppliers giving him better than usual support and backing.

Granted, some site owners may just have a piece of land lyeing around they don't use for anything, or already be in such dire straits that one of their existing fields is not really being utilised all that much.... but by far most fields will be running at close to max capacity.

At any rate, I still don't see the average commercial site owner making great changes in his business, without a much greater effort from industry to facilitate a change they would benefit more from than anyone else.

Nick

 

[MissyQ]

Nick/Jay, I don't think the financials are that big a deal. Lets say a site operator wants to make $35 per head, after all expenses. That figure is acheivable through BYO paint easier than it is by grafting out the sales on the day. I see your point, but don't think it is a difficult one to navigate. A good marketing guy would clean house with a project like that.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Baca: Always the voice of reason

Dave: I would be most interesting in seeing that blueprint, were you ever to get it

Missy: I don't believe walk on play has to be more disorganised to be more attractive. - I believe that Europeans - by nature - are far more fond of sports activities being highly organised and regulated than americans, and that sites would need to run walk on/tournament style events with an even higher degree of organisation than they do their normal rental groups.

Here's an idea:

I don't know if you have this in the UK - we do in Denmark: "company sports".

Essentially, it is a sports organisation that organises leagues for company based teams, allowing a company to - for instance - enter one or more team into a football league, so that their employees go play a match against another company in the league once per week in the season.

They are run like proper leagues, with promotion and relegation and season end.

In Denmark these leagues run a variety of sports, football being the most popular.

In a metropolitan area like Copenhagen, that sports organisation is just a shoe in for a daring site owner to set up a permanent tournament arena, and offer weekly days for "company paintball tournaments".

You would need to provice the companies with full player gear for all their players at first, just like you do a normal rental day - but ofcourse gear with a significantly better standard.

Paint prices, etc. would have to be extremely low, with a very small margin, to allow as many companies as possible to take part without finding it too costly.

You would need to provide referees for each event day, which is an added cost.

But, gradually these company teams would start purchasing their own gear from your own shop, and gradually more an more companies would enter teams into the league, meaning yould could move to 2 days per week, then 3, and so on.

The effect for paintball, would be thousands of players being introduced to tournament paintball every year, and naturally gradiating to "real tournament" in time.

The effect for the site owner would be a whole new avenue of business.

The effect for the industry would be greatly improved sales of mid and high range gear.

But, again, a site would need a LOT of support from their main supplier, to even begin to undertake such a development plan.

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick/Jay, I don't think the financials are that big a deal. Lets say a site operator wants to make $35 per head, after all expenses. That figure is acheivable through BYO paint easier than it is by grafting out the sales on the day. I see your point, but don't think it is a difficult one to navigate. A good marketing guy would clean house with a project like that.

I agree - but that is not the problem for most site owners.

The problem is that there are so few walk on players to base a change of their business on, that they - maybe - amount to an income of £ 500 per week - at best.

Now, mathematically, to change one of your "normal" rental fields to cater for the needs of walk on players, you have to currently be running less than 15 rental players through the existing field, for that descision to make sense (15 x £ 35 = £ 525). - Is the field being used by more rental players per week, you are making a poor business descision in the short term (if my numbers are off, insert your own, and you will still find the number of rental players you can afford to loose is very low).

(yeah - I know - loads of other possibilities - but this is just to make the point clear).

I spoke to a local site owner a couple of days ago, who has so far been running walk on days on an airball field regularly.

He told me that he has in the past 4 weeks had to turn away 10 commercial groups, because he does not have the capacity for them, and he is now seriously considering converting the space laid out for airball to a western village, so that he can run more commercial groups.

The truth is, that currently, commercial groups do not want to play airball - out of any given group of 50........ 10-15 will love it, and the rest prefer playing woodland or urban fields.

That is the reality for all site owners.

The trick then becomes how to attract those 10-15 players, without the rest of their group, to a different product, which is airball.... and the suggestion I made in the previous post, might be one way of doing it.... but still, site owners need a lot of help and support to make it work - most simply do not have the capabilities to do it on their own.

Nick

 

[MissyQ]

"Missy: I don't believe walk on play has to be more disorganised to be more attractive."

Nor do I. Read my post again, I believe I am saying the exact opposite.

And seriously, on the rest of your post, I disagree with most of it. People have to make money on thier own 2 feet. Paint will not get cheaper - that is a fact and please believe it - everyone has to make money, its not the european commission, there are no pay-outs for loss-leaders in this industry. People have to market themselves, and find a way to pry open thier niche. Thats why its the normally the smart, or bold guys that make the money in this game - or any industry.
People must provide the facility and structure, and then market that facility. The paint is brought in by the players, who buy it at market prices from stores or websites (which is how they in turn make thier own money - cue growth). People come to you to use your facility because it's the best. Sure they can buy paint there - but they don't have to. The marketing of the facility, the Pro's you have on-site for training/drills (even on a one-on-one level), the teams you have playing there, the bar, the restuarant - these are the things you use to drive traffic. The stores will help market you because you are the place people can go to when they buy their paint - its a back-scratching exercise. You need your own money, and 3-5 years to get it back. No-one is going to subsidise you. If thats the plan, then you will be waiting a very long time. Thge people who are unable to make the progression will not be able to do it. The ones with the resouces will, and these are the people that the industry needs. Paintball does not need any more cowboys scratching a living by running a badly equipped site. Thats part of the problem now. They might be nice guys, but professionalism and business savvy is what's needed, not industry support for those too weak to stand alone. Thats bad business.
The first person to work with the stores and allow them an well-run outlet for their wares to be shot will do very well. He will just have to invest first. Maybe banks will help him, but he can't expect industry handouts. Support maybe, but not subsidisation, otherwise how will anyone know if its viable?

 

[MissyQ]

Nick - I get your point about the site operator that wants to convert to a western village, and I am not saying that every site operator can convert and be successful, it needs to be the right one. That guy needs to be able to invest, which means he may have to let corporate clients go, or better yet, market the new concept to them so that they want to do that instead. Like I said -a good marketing guy can do that.
If someone can't convert because they will only earn $500 per week then they should not do it, and they are not on the same page or talking about the same facility as I am.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Paint will not get cheaper - that is a fact and please believe it

I think you are missing my point.

I'm not talking about buying paint cheaper from suppliers - but selling it a lot cheaper to customers than to normal rental customers - to make such a league viable for the teams.

I'm not talking about sibsidies either - I'm saying that many site owners will have an easier time implementing the changes needed, if they don't have to fork out £ 50,000 straight off to make changes, but can finance it over a period of time.

You can buy a car and get it financed over 5 years - why can't you buy 50 Angels and have them financed over - say 2 years?

Anyway - financing is just ONE small part of all this - and not THAT important.... many of the other things needed, I cited in an earlier post.... and many sites can just get what they need financed elsewhere anyway.... but what IS important, is the signal value of the supplier OFFERING - amongst other things - the financing option... it tells the site owner that the supplier honestly believes in the idea, and is prepared to pay for it, by accepting a gradual payment.

It creates a feeling of security and the comfort that your supplier shares your risk to some degree.

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

BTW Missy

- You keep referring to the "good marketing guy".

How many sites do you know that have one of those on staff?

In my experience, most sites are run by people that are very good at customer service, and extremely poor at sales and marketing.

How many sites do you know that does active canvas based sales? - Most just take out an add in the local phone directory, lean back, and wait for the customers to call and book.

It will never cease to amaze me, that so few sites understand how much more business they could generate, canvassing potential customers for a couple of hours each day.

But no, "if you build it they will come" - Kevin Costner was not born in vain.

Anyway - the "smart marketing guy", is yet another service industry could - and should - provide for their customers - yet another service that would greatly ease the transition to more walk on based customers.

Nick