Technology?

[Hotpoint]

Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by manike
Since there is actually very little difference in the pressure most guns fire at, and since the acceleration is very similar (effing huge!) I don't think your theory holds water sorry.

Also the acceleration of a paintball takes about 0.006 seconds... the fill of a paintball is such that it won't settle when sitting for months. And thus the heavier particles are extremely unlikely to move under a 6ms acceleration if they don't when sat under the force of gravity for a few days/months.

I'd still like to see experimental data before writing it off completely Manike. Although the operating pressure (and therefore acceleration) only differs by up to 40psi in practice that is still the difference between maybe 1000 and 1500 gee's

The optimum barrels lengths for an RT and a Shocker are different because the former does accelerate the round somewhat more brutally (although 1000gee is pretty nasty in itself)

Instead of thinking about the fill particles seperating out how about fluid mechanics instead. An extra 500 gees could means a differential in the way the fill migrates (causing spin effects as the internal movement of the fluid acts upon the casing)

Hey like I said before I'm no physicist but I do like to dabble. Is there anyone out there who'd like to do the math?

 

[Robbo]

Si, cool, glad we all now recognise, or should do, the real facts about what affetcs paintball range and accuracy.
There is way too much mis-information put about in this game and soo many receptive minds that will lap up almost anything put about by some idiots who know **** !!!

A breath of science has wafted over paintball proceedings once again and we await the next ludicrous assertion to grace our pages...it's only a matter of time

But as some people might say (and I think quite righty), 'Who gives a damn **** anyway, all I wanna do is pick up my marker and shoot fools'

Can't argue with that
Robbo

 

[Robbo]

Re: Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by Hotpoint
I'd still like to see experimental data before writing it off completely Manike. Although the operating pressure (and therefore acceleration) only differs by up to 40psi in practice that is still the difference between maybe 1000 and 1500 gee's
The optimum barrels lengths for an RT and a Shocker are different because the former does accelerate the round somewhat more brutally (although 1000gee is pretty nasty in itself)
Instead of thinking about the fill particles seperating out how about fluid mechanics instead. An extra 500 gees could means a differential in the way the fill migrates (causing spin effects as the internal movement of the fluid acts upon the casing)
Hey like I said before I'm no physicist but I do like to dabble. Is there anyone out there who'd like to do the math?

Hey Hotpoint, stop grasping at straws mate
I can do the maths ok but I'm afraid the fluid dynamic and frictional coefficient data is not available to me and therefore disables me from doing anything...not for one minute am I suggesting I would actually do it anyway
I ain't that frikkin sad !!!!
Robbo

 

[manike]

Re: Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by Hotpoint
The optimum barrels lengths for an RT and a Shocker are different because the former does accelerate the round somewhat more brutally (although 1000gee is pretty nasty in itself)

Want to bet?

If you are using a freak barrel (for example) on both markers then the acceleration bore is the same length and the acceleration is not going to be much different. The acceleration gradient may differ slightly but in reality you have the same distance to accelerate the ball in, you want the same final velocity...

me thinks you have been persuaded by too much hype what a suprise (I also remember us discussing this on the old pgi boards)

oh that and the fact that the RT has about 60-80psi behind the ball when it accelerates it... just like the shocker does so it ought to be a very similar acceleration curve... given they are both dump chamber designs also...

Don't confuse the acceleration pressure with the tendency to break balls. That is more down to bolt speed (and bolt edge) than the pressure although when you start putting over 150psi behind the ball they pretty much just get blown up

The largest psi behind the ball tends to come with cockers and angels! And you can get a cocker up to velocity with a shorter barrel than you can with many other guns... (although it still seems to be quite consistant) So there goes another myth...

A lot of this information comes from the test labs at AGD and can be found on the net in different places. Other bits, well you have to go there and see for yourself unless they decide to release it all... (don't hold your breath). Either that or you can do some experiments for yourself and see A lot of hype and myths are not hard to disprove if you think for your self and apply a little experimentation/maths.

manike

 

[manike]

I'm a little different...

Originally posted by Robbo
But as some people might say (and I think quite righty), 'Who gives a damn **** anyway, all I wanna do is pick up my marker and shoot fools'

I want to pick up a marker... take it apart, maybe put it back together, work out how it works and what I can do with it, THEN shoot fools

manike

 

[Robbo]

I'm a little different...

Originally posted by manike
I want to pick up a marker... take it apart, maybe put it back together, work out how it works and what I can do with it, THEN shoot fools
manike

I don't need to 'take it apart. ...put it back together....work out how it works'.. to know what to do with it...I just pick the damn thing up and shoot fools, thats what I can do with it
Pete

 

[Hotpoint]

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by Robbo


Hey Hotpoint, stop grasping at straws mate
I can do the maths ok but I'm afraid the fluid dynamic and frictional coefficient data is not available to me and therefore disables me from doing anything...not for one minute am I suggesting I would actually do it anyway
I ain't that frikkin sad !!!!

Hey I'm only theorising. Hegelian Dialectic in action:

Thesis - Antithesis - Synthesis

And thus increases Human Knowledge

 

[Hotpoint]

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by manike


Want to bet?

If you are using a freak barrel (for example) on both markers then the acceleration bore is the same length and the acceleration is not going to be much different. The acceleration gradient may differ slightly but in reality you have the same distance to accelerate the ball in, you want the same final velocity...

me thinks you have been persuaded by too much hype what a suprise (I also remember us discussing this on the old pgi boards)

Actually I always thought the hype was a load of plural spheroids which is why I came up with my own theory as to why my Shocker genuinely seemed to be more accurate at long ranges than AutoMag's etc

Most of the "reasons" given for this were clearly scientific nonsense so I hypothesised a possible cause that didn't violate the laws of physics. My background isn't actually physics, maths or indeed ballistics so I was just theorising not working through the equations

And when we talked about this before you didn't have the numbers either. If you had I would have come up with a new theory by now

 

[TJ Lambini]

Witchcraft?

Burn tha Gardners, tha Mormon Freaks!

 

[Robbo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's worse than that, it's physics Jim...

Originally posted by Hotpoint
Hey I'm only theorising. Hegelian Dialectic in action:
Thesis - Antithesis - Synthesis
And thus increases Human Knowledge

Hegel's view on the relevance of Art has always been a stumbling block for me and I would prefer (if philosophers are to be quoted) to rely more on people like Descartes whose reductionist approach to problem solving was more to my liking (Cogito, ergo, sum)....Hmmm gimme Descartes any day of the week over Hegel !
Robbo
PS any comments TJ ?